Screen time for toddlers

Talking tantrums, TV, and Daniel Tiger with Cara Goodwin, PhD

Welcome to Techno Sapiens! To those visiting from Parenting Translator—please, make yourself at home. And if you haven’t yet, subscribe to join thousands of other techno sapiens and get research-backed tips for living and parenting in the digital age.

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I am so excited to share this interview with Dr. Cara Goodwin, child psychologist and founder of Parenting Translator. Cara and I overlapped in the Clinical Psychology PhD program at UNC Chapel Hill—in fact, when I searched for Cara’s name in my email last week, I located an exchange we had over a *decade* ago, in which Cara very kindly offered to pick me up from the airport for my campus visit. [Pre-Uber! Can you believe it?]

I wanted to talk to Cara about evidence-based strategies for managing screen time with kids in the preschool and toddler stage. Incidentally, I, myself, have a soon-to-be toddler, and I am scared—so I was very grateful to Cara for breaking down the research on everything from how to prevent screen time meltdowns to the benefits of Daniel Tiger. Thanks for the conversation (and the airport ride), Cara! 

For more digestible, actionable, and research-backed parenting tips, check out Cara’s newsletter and follow her on Instagram.

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Jackie:

Thank you so much for being here, Cara! Maybe you could start by just sharing a little about who you are, your background, and what you do.

Cara:

Thanks for having me! I'm Dr. Cara Goodwin. I'm a child psychologist and a mother to three children, currently a two-year-old, four-year-old and six-year-old. Recently, I started a nonprofit organization called Parenting Translator with the goal of taking all the research that's out there on child development and parenting, and translating it into information that parents can use in their everyday lives to make the hardest job in the world a little bit easier. 

Jackie:

Definitely the hardest job in the world! And I know so many people (including me!) are very grateful for the work that you do. 

Today, I want to focus a little bit on the toddler and preschool age because I think there are so many questions parents have about screen time and screens in that group. And I think it's really important to take an evidence-based perspective on some of those questions. 

I want to start off by just asking, in general, how should parents of little kids, under age 6 or so, be thinking about screen time?

Cara:

The research suggests that the quality really does matter more than the quantity. The content of what kids are doing on screens—the type of television show they're watching, the type of app they're using—matters more than how much time they’re spending.

There’s a really interesting study that was a randomized controlled trial where parents were asked to keep the overall screen time (the number of minutes their child was watching) the same, while changing the content. And they encouraged parents to choose shows with more prosocial messages, which means messages encouraging children to be kind (what we’d think of as a good takeaway message from a show) and more educationally-based. Some examples they gave in the paper of these shows were Sesame Street, Dora the Explorer, and Super WHY!  

The research found that when parents were encouraged to change the content that their kids watched—even though they were watching for the same amount of time–the kids showed improved social skills and fewer behavioral problems. So, that really suggests that the content does matter.

The research suggests that the quality really does matter more than the quantity. The content of what kids are doing on screens—the type of television show they're watching, the type of app they're using—matters more than how much time they’re spending.

Jackie:

So, in general, the specific number of minutes or hours that kids are spending on screens is maybe less relevant than the content they’re watching or the things they’re doing. 

How should parents go about actually choosing that content? 

Cara:

In general, PBS shows tend to have these more prosocial messages and educational content because PBS is a nonprofit. So they're not as much interested in making money off their TV shows as they are in providing quality content.

There’s actually some research on specific shows, too. Like Daniel Tiger, for example, which is personally one of my favorite shows for toddlers because they incorporate a lot of prosocial messages. Research has found that this show helps children learn skills such as empathy, emotion recognition, and self-confidence. Most parents who have seen Daniel Tiger get the songs stuck in their head, but there are some really helpful messages there! When I’m with my kids at the playground, I often sing the song “It’s almost time to stop, so choose one more thing to do” from Daniel Tiger. And that really gives them a concrete way to transition away from the playground.

There’s also research showing that Super WHY!, which is another PBS show, teaches some literacy skills. 

And there's some research showing that children tend to learn better from Dora the Explorer because it is more interactive—Dora will ask the audience a question and sometimes children will respond to that. 

Jackie:

So, it sounds like what you’re looking for in TV shows would be (1) more prosocial messages, and (2) some kind of interactivity, or “call and response,” between the show and the child.

And in terms of specific shows, you mentioned: Daniel Tiger, Dora the Explorer, Super WHY!, and Sesame Street. This is really helpful!

Okay, and what about apps? Is there a difference between kids watching TV shows versus playing games or using apps?  Is there any evidence that one is better than the other?

Cara:

So, I really think that apps get a bad rap, but like TV shows, it really depends on the content! You know, on social media, a lot of people say that it's better for children to watch TV shows than use apps because some of these apps have an addictive quality to them. It is true that TV shows tend to have a more natural ending point than apps, but we really don’t have any research showing that apps are addictive or worse for your child’s brain development in any way. 

Some research finds that children learn more from TV shows than apps, and other research finds that children learn more from apps. So, that suggests to me that it really depends on the quality for either TV shows or apps.

It is true that TV shows tend to have a more natural ending point than apps, but we really don’t have any research showing that apps are addictive or worse for your child’s brain development in any way. 

Jackie:

And what should parents be looking for in apps?

Cara:

With apps, you want to look for similar things as you would in TV shows. You want something that's interactive—the more interactive it is, the more children are going to learn.

But you also want to make sure that the interaction is meaningful to learning. They would learn more if the app is asking them to select a correct number or letter, for example, instead of just responding to some distracting feature of the app. 

Another interesting research finding about apps is that young children learn 19 times as much if a parent is engaging in the app with them. So, for young children in particular, when they're first learning how to engage in an app, you want to really help them understand what's happening. The more involved you are in interacting with them while engaging in the app, the more they're going to learn.

Jackie:

That's super interesting—19 times as much is a huge effect. 

Cara:

It’s just one study, but yeah, I thought that was really striking.

Jackie:

I know there are some similar findings on parents co-viewing TV with children—if you're there to help your child both interpret the messages that they're getting, and also help them interact in ways that are more educational, maybe that's making a difference.

Cara:

Exactly. So, if you are co-viewing TV, which just means watching TV with your child, they're going to learn more. You can be labeling what you see on screen and asking them questions about what they’re seeing. For example, as a psychologist, I'm always encouraging parents to ask their kids questions about the thoughts and feelings of the characters in a TV show because this provides social interaction and helps with the development of emotional recognition and empathy. 

I know sometimes as parents in the real world, we just need to turn on a show because we need to keep our children safe while we make dinner. But, if you're in one of those modes where you're just feeling fried and want to sit and watch a TV show with your child, just know that they will learn a lot more from it if you interact with them while you watch the show!

Jackie:

Absolutely. And I think it's important, too, to note that just because it's potentially more educational for you to watch with them or use apps with them, it doesn't mean it's necessarily bad if you're not doing that all the time. Like, sometimes we need to use screens to give ourselves a break, and that’s okay.

Cara:

Absolutely.  It's unrealistic to think that parents would be sitting there watching every TV show with their kids.

Jackie:

So, related to the app versus TV show question, do the devices they're using matter? Like, is there a difference between kids using an iPad or smartphone versus watching on an actual TV?

Cara:

So there is some research showing that with iPads or iPhones, it is harder to interact with your child, meaning it's harder to do the co-viewing with your child that I mentioned earlier. 

It also may be worse for their eyes if they watch on a smaller screen than a larger screen, mostly because they get closer to that smaller screen. 

So, there are some differences, but I don’t think that watching TV on a phone is going to harm your child in any way. It just might make co-viewing a little bit more difficult. 

Jackie:

That makes sense. 

So, I hear all the time from parents that one of the number one challenges they run into with screen time is their children having a difficult time transitioning away from screens—their kids are having tantrums or getting upset when screen time is over. I’d love to hear what advice you have for setting up screen time for success?

Cara:

The biggest piece of advice I have is to make it a routine. Be pretty rigid about the times that your child is going to watch screens and they aren't. From my personal and clinical experience, that can eliminate a lot of tantrums because children know when to expect it, and they know that whining for it after it's over won't result in more. So, have some sort of routine around screen time—maybe it's when the baby is napping, that's when the toddler gets their 30 minutes of screen time. And when that one show is over, then you always turn it off. 

I had a parent recently tell me what they do, which I thought was really smart. Have you heard of those Hatch night lights for toddlers? When it turns green, they're allowed to come out of the bed, or the bedroom? So it’s the same idea, but the Hatch nightlight was set to turn green from like 2:00 to 2:30 every day. And that's the child’s screen time. And when it turns red, screen time is over. I thought that was a really concrete way to  tell children when screen time is happening. 

Second, with all transitions for young kids, warnings can also be helpful so that they know that a change is coming. You know, I usually pause the TV show a few minutes before it ends (because they don't always hear me if it's not paused!), and I say when this ends in two minutes, we're gonna turn off the TV and be done with TV for the day. 

And finally, I would say to avoid using screens as a way to calm your child down. There's a research study showing that parents who use that strategy tend to have children who have more difficulty ending screen time. So, just being careful about when you use screens and I think having it as a routine can really prevent some of these issues. 

The biggest piece of advice I have is to make it a routine. Be pretty rigid about the times that your child is going to watch screens and they aren't.

Jackie:

I really like that kind of framework for thinking about it: make it a routine, provide warnings, and as much as we can, avoid using screens to calm kids down.

So, I imagine there are some parents out there who love the idea of setting up a screen time routine, but maybe they haven't done that yet. And right now, with summer, there's probably even less of that routine happening than normal. Do you have any advice for how parents can get a routine into place if they want to make a change?

Cara:

I think you have to explain it at a developmentally-appropriate level for your child. Rather than just cutting off your child “cold turkey,” you can say “this is our new plan,” and then make sure you praise and reward them when they do stick to it. So, even if they have a meltdown, after they calm down, make sure you’re acknowledging that. 

And then it’s about just really sticking to the plan. This is one of those things where, as a parent, you really have to be pretty rigid and routine-oriented. Otherwise, you're gonna pay for it in terms of your child whining or having more meltdowns and tantrums because they don't totally understand when they can get screen time and when they can't.

Jackie:

Right. Probably one of those things where, as the tantrum gets more intense, it gets harder and harder to stick to saying “screen time is over,” but that's when it's the most important to stay consistent and not give in.

And I like the idea, too, of remembering praise and rewards when the screen time goes well. I think we sort of forget about that, and there's this tendency when things are going well to not say anything because we don’t want to rock the boat. But it makes sense when they do a good job of transitioning out of screen time, to reward that, since it's a behavior that you want to see more of.

Cara:

Yes, exactly.

Jackie:

Okay, a couple more questions for you. So it’s summer, which involves more screen time for many families—and, of course, that’s okay! But I also think some parents are sometimes looking for suggestions for other kinds of activities their kids can do. 

If kids are saying they're bored, and our go-to is using screens, what can we do instead? Any suggestions for non-screen activities?

Cara:

So it really depends on the child and how much they enjoy different kinds of activities. My children love audiobooks–my four-year-old loves Magic Treehouse audiobooks and my six-year-old really loves this series called Land of Stories. 

I think audiobooks are great, especially in the summer, because if your kids have been out in the sun all day or at at camp all day, this can give them some downtime if you don't really want to do screens. My kids will go into their rooms and color while they listen to audiobooks.

Jackie:

Honestly, that sounds like something I want to do.

Cara:

I know! I actually think it's really relaxing. 

And then, this is gonna sound like an annoying suggestion, but independent play is like a muscle, and you have to build it up. Some kids are naturally better at independent play than others, but if you want to encourage more independent play, you want to set up very small, realistic goals and build up your child's muscle for that. Then, once the play is over, make sure you praise and reward them, even if it was literally one minute of independent play. 

Some children also need suggestions to get them going with independent play because they don't know where to start. So you could say, “why don't you try doing this puzzle here, while I load the dishwasher?” You can give a very specific time that they need to do it and a specific suggestion on what to do, and then over time, build up to more and more. 

Jackie:

These are great suggestions! 

Okay, here’s the last thing I want to chat about: I think talking about screen time, especially with parents of this younger age group, you hear so many parents expressing guilt. I think parents feel guilty a lot of the time about their screen time habits, their kids’ screen time habits, and how they're managing it. I would love to hear your perspective on that. How can we prevent that? How can we help parents feel a little better about some of their decisions around screen time for their kids?

Cara:

So, we've talked about how screen time isn't inherently bad. We don't have any evidence that it causes all of these negative outcomes that you see in the media and on social media. The big issue is really: what would your child be doing instead? 

If instead of using screens, they would be having a high quality interaction with you, then yes, you should definitely choose the high quality interaction. But a lot of the time, when parents use screen time, it’s when they're trying to get something done and they need their child to stay safe. Or when they’re just burnt out and they're at a point where they might yell at their child or use some sort of harsh punishment, and as a parent, they just need a break.

No parent can be “on” 24/7. We’ve also just lived through a pandemic that has caused unrelenting disruptions in childcare, a lot of us are still quarantining regularly. You need to give yourself a break as a parent and realize that sometimes, screen time is the right choice, and you should feel good about that. 

You just have to think about: what am I replacing with screen time? If it's replacing social interaction or quality family time, then yes, maybe you should cut back. If it is keeping your child safe while you're making dinner or keeping your sanity as a parent, it's the right choice.

You just have to think about: what am I replacing with screen time? If it's replacing social interaction or quality family time, then yes, maybe you should cut back. If it is keeping your child safe while you're making dinner or keeping your sanity as a parent, it's the right choice.

Jackie:

Absolutely. You know, with all the information out there on social media, it sometimes makes you feel, as a parent, that you have to somehow do everything, and that every decision you're making, particularly when it comes to things like screen time, is going to have these long-lasting impacts on your child's health. It's hard sometimes to sort through what's out there and to remember that you're only one person. There's only so much that you can do.

Cara:

Yes, exactly.

Jackie:

Cara, thank you so much. This was really, really helpful!

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