Welcome to Techno Sapiens! Subscribe to join 14,000+ other readers and get research-backed tips for living and parenting in the digital age.
I’ve always loved following Caroline Chambers on Instagram and Substack, but never more so than right now. In addition to helping me satisfy a very specific pregnancy craving for homemade dressings and condiments (see the end of this interview), Caroline’s work reminds me that we’re never alone in this whole parenting thing—even when our toddlers are demanding we go see nearby leaf blowers or discuss human anatomy (see, also, the end of this interview).
She’s the brains behind What to Cook When You Don’t Feel Like Cooking, a newsletter that delivers a “complete meal” recipe every Sunday morning, and her second cookbook (also called What to Cook) will be available for pre-order this Fall. On Instagram (@carochambers), she shares recipes and honest (and hilarious) takes on parenthood with over 125,000 followers.
I loved having the chance to talk with Caroline about everything from handling online criticism, to sharing personal information online, to (of course) cooking delicious recipes. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!
Jackie:
Hi Caroline! I'm so excited to be having this conversation. I'm a big fan of your newsletter and recipes, and you're one of my favorite people to follow on Instagram. Your stories make me laugh out loud — and they're also extremely validating as a fellow mom of a toddler boy.
You've built these amazing online communities around your cooking, parenting, and writing. "Being online" is obviously a big part of that, so I'm really interested to hear about how you think about integrating that into your life, work, and family (and, of course, talk about some of your recipes).
So let's dive in! Maybe you could start by introducing yourself and sharing a bit about what you do?
Caroline:
Hey! I'm Caroline Chambers, and I'm a professional recipe developer and mom of three young boys (4, 2, and 9 months!). Prior to COVID, I was a freelance recipe developer for hire by brands and publications. Brands didn't exactly know how to market food during a global pandemic, so all of my clients disappeared in March 2020, and I took the opportunity to build my online presence as a "food person." I had no idea what I was doing, but I built an Instagram audience by sharing really easy recipes, and teaching people how to swap out ingredients confidently so that they could make my recipes using whatever they already had on hand.
In late 2020 I launched What To Cook When You Don't Feel Like Cooking, a recipe subscription that delivers a "complete meal" recipe via email every Sunday morning. The recipes take under (usually way under) an hour to complete, are typically very hands-off, and require minimal brainpower at the end of the day. They're easy, but they're really, really delicious. Meals to feel proud of. I'm obsessed with developing these recipes, constantly trying to find shortcuts that won't sacrifice flavor and coming up with hacks to help people enjoy cooking more.
Jackie:
I can vouch that your recipes are SO delicious and easy enough that even I can make them (and I am a person who's gone entire years of her adult life without opening an oven). I also love that you include the measurements in the body of the recipe (e.g., "warm 1 tablespoon sesame oil in a 12-inch skillet") so you don't have to keep scrolling up to check the measurements on the ingredient list. So simple but totally genius!
So it sounds like it's been about 3 years that you've been building this online presence as a "food person." I'm just curious, what has that process been like? When did you realize that this could become your career, and what was that like?
Caroline:
When COVID lockdown started in March of 2020, I was working as a professional recipe developer, freelancing for magazines and brands, ghostwriting cookbooks. I had wanted to start publishing more recipes and cooking tips on my own Instagram page, but I was always so slammed with freelance work that I never had the time. So when lockdown started and all of my clients put a pause on any new work, I decided to go for it. I started posting videos and stories on Instagram all the time. Then I started teaching online cooking classes which took off because everyone was bored in their houses.
I was able to grow my audience pretty quickly by creating super simple and adaptable recipes. Providing tons of substitutions and riff ideas became my thing and is a huge part of my newsletter's popularity. It really empowers people to use what they already have instead of going out and buying all new ingredients, which really teaches them how to actually cook versus just follow a recipe.
I realized I'd officially made the switch from "professional recipe developer" to "influencer" by late 2020 when an old recipe development client asked me to do a job and I had to turn it down because financially, it no longer made sense to spend my time and effort on those jobs.
Jackie:
That must have been such an interesting switch! And maybe, in some ways, kind of liberating to know that you no longer needed these clients because you'd already built this independent business.
I'm curious, what are some of the pros and cons of your current work set up as an "influencer"? Are there things you like and dislike about it? I think a lot of people have ideas about what it must be like to be an "influencer," but I'd imagine the reality is pretty different from what people think.
Caroline:
Completely liberating. It's very freeing to feel in control of my own paycheck, versus constantly waiting for clients to hire me for the next gig.
Pros of "influencer" life — the flexibility, the ability to work from anywhere, that my time is my own. For instance, I took my two older boys on Spring Break for a week this past school year, so I worked the entire weekend before, and the entire weekend after to make up for the lost days of work. I'm writing my second cookbook right now, so I really needed to make up for lost time, and it's incredible that I can do that and still get the time I want with my kids.
I imagine people think that being an influencer is really invasive, but it's not. I choose how much I want to share. Some days I overshare a ton if I think it can be useful to my audience. For instance, when I was weaning my third baby off of breastfeeding. That was really hard for me with my first two, the hormone swings led to a lot of anxiety and depression, and I had never been warned about that, so I've been really open about sharing that experience on my Instagram stories in hopes that I can help another mom out there. I've already gotten so many messages from women saying things like "oh my gosh, I just dropped a feed and felt so anxious all week, I had no idea this was a thing". These are the moments when I really love the "oversharing" aspect of being an influencer.
The thing I dislike the most is being open for public scrutiny. When it's mean comments about recipes I share, they usually make me laugh now. But when I first started out, they'd send me into a tailspin of doubting my work. But when it's about my parenting style or a comment about my personality, it can still get to me. I recently talked about how using babysitters has been important for my marriage, and a woman attacked me in my DMs, calling me privileged and demanding that I "recognize my privilege." It made me feel horrible, but then I remembered that a person who takes the time to criticize someone else on the Internet is a sad little person, and it's not worth my time to think twice about it. Blocked her and moved on!
Jackie:
One of the things I love — and I think so many other people love too — about your Instagram is how open and honest it seems like you are, even on more difficult or personal topics. Related to that — how do you decide what to share, both about yourself and your family/kids? Are there things that just feel too private? Or is everything sort of fair game?
I'm partially curious because it's something I've started thinking/worrying about with my newsletter (obviously on a much smaller scale) — like, how much do I share about a struggle my toddler is having? Or, if I make this joke about one of my friends or family members, are they going to feel weird that, like, ten thousand people now know that information? It can feel hard to decide on those boundaries.
Caroline:
I try to keep anything deeply personal that I share (and there is a lot of that!) focused on me. I am down to share how being a mother affects my physical and mental health. I love discussing how having children has changed my marriage and sex life (I get permission from my husband if I'm really diving into this one, ha!). Basically: I really love talking about anything that has been a hard topic that I've felt alone on in the past. When I had postpartum anxiety after having my first, I felt so, so alone. I was one of the first of my friends to have a kid, and I had no idea that the extremely intrusive thoughts I had around my baby's well-being weren't just "normal mom stuff". I only realized how bad my anxiety was once I was on the other side of it, once I stopped nursing when he was around 14 months. I have sort of made it my unofficial mission to share all the things I wish I had known as a first time mom.
I don't have a perfect science to what I’ll share versus keep private — but with regards to my kids, I'll talk about broader issues that I know affect most parents. For instance, my two and four year old's unwavering insistence on having a 9pm second dinner every single night for the last several weeks. I shared about this and got so many "wow, I feel so seen, I thought my kids were the only ones who did this!". Every kid is different, but man, they do a lot of the same stuff, too. So these big things, I love sharing and crowd-sourcing advice. My kid's are now eating dinner at 5, and being offered a huge bedtime snack at 7pm before books. Fingers crossed this solves their case of the nighttime toddler munchies.
Anything that feels more personal — like behavioral issues we are struggling with or health concerns — I keep to myself. That's their business and I never want it to seem like I'm exploiting their adolescence for likes. Like I said, it's a delicate line since I do enjoy sharing so much of our life!
Jackie:
I think the personal sharing is so helpful, and one of the really amazing things about what you do - it's just so nice for people to know they're not alone, especially with some of these topics around parenthood and postpartum that are kind of taboo, or maybe people feel embarrassed to talk about. I remember seeing some of your stories once about moms peeing their pants postpartum and I was like yes, we need more of this.
And when you get those people attacking you or making mean comments, what tips do you have for handling that criticism? I think it can be really hard for people, maybe especially women—who are both more likely to be the targets of those mean Internet comments, and also often more likely to be "people pleasers"—to deal with that (asking for...myself, obviously).
Caroline:
Handling criticism, whether it's on a recipe or on something more politicized that I've shared (what's up, NRA supporters), has gotten so much easier the more years I spend in the bizarre Internet influencer space. With three kids and a full-time job I quite literally do not have the brain space for negativity from some random stranger on the Internet, so if it's a publicly written comment that's really bumming me out, I just delete it! If it's a really rude DM (people literally make up fake accounts just to send mean things to influencers, it's SO WEIRD!), I block the account.
Don't get me wrong, this took years of practice. I remember feeling really sad about a mean comment I'd gotten, and I was having a hard time enjoying hanging out with my kids because I was so low. I went to bed that night and was like nope, not gonna let some random Internet asshole ruin another moment of my precious time with my babies.
Jackie:
That's such a good mindset to have. One of the things that is just endlessly fascinating to me is how social media can be this *amazing* place for all the things we're talking about—building community, feeling less alone—but then also so terrible at times. I'm really impressed with how you're finding ways to use it for good without letting the bad stuff bring you down.
Okay, I could ask you a million more questions, but I know you have a lot on your plate, so let's finish up with a quick lightning round!
Lightening Round:
Weirdest thing your kids are doing/saying these days? [For me, it’s that my son is demanding we go for walks around the neighborhood everyday to “check out the leaf blowers”].
Mattis (4 1/2) is super into anatomy right now. Penises, vaginas (paginas), buttholes. Looots of weiner talk at our house right now. Calum (2 1/2) just decided he's finished with diapers, hasn't let us put one on in a week and hasn't had a single accident! Thrilled to be changing only one child's diapers. Cash (9 months old) has just entered the screeching phase. Ugh, I love it so much. He screeches at the top of his lungs and grins this huge gummy grin to communicate with us, it’s hysterical.
Favorite people to follow on Instagram and/or Substack?
Bess Kalb's Substack is a hysterical, real deal look at motherhood.
Best kitchen item(s) under $50?
This fish spatula is the only spatula you need. You'll never go back to the big clunky square ones.
Current go-to parenting hack(s)?
I've got diapers on the brain so, if you have two kids in diapers, just pick one size and stick them both in that. Cashel is 9 months old now, and he's been wearing size 5 diapers since he was a month old. Any opportunity to make logistics a little easier, take it.
And finally: your top 3 recipes from What to Cook? [I'll go first - the Thai Chicken Chop. That dressing. Omg.]
Oh I love that recipe so much, I'm going to make the dressing for lunches this week! I'm going to list some summery guys since we're entering the greatest food season.
The Shrimp and fresh corn grits is absolutely insanely good. The "grits" are just fresh corn grated on a box grater and cooked until the starches in the corn thicken it to a pudding-like consistency.
This sesame-ginger grilled steak with a pepper, cucumber, avocado salad is so flavorful, and a great intro to grilling if it intimidates you.
My balsamic basil grilled chicken has a sandwich version and a salad version, and I'm obsessed with the salad version. The marinade is punchy and the honey in it makes the chicken crisp up really nicely around the edges, it's a must-try.
Thanks so much for having me on! I learn so much from your Substack and it makes me so happy that you enjoy my recipes, too.
Jackie:
Thanks again for doing this! Off to go make your beach sandwiches—that white bean-avocado spread is speaking to my weird sauce/condiment pregnancy cravings…
A quick survey
What did you think of this week’s Techno Sapiens? Your feedback helps me make this better. Thanks!
The Best | Great | Good | Meh | The Worst
Great collaboration!
هل يوجد الشخص الذي يساعدني