I am shocked by this newsletter. I mean I live in New Zealand so culturally are worlds apart from America. For a psychologist to be suggesting leaving a child alone in a room to cry to themselves until they realise no one is coming to support them is frankly dangerous. I really thought the point of having a child was to attune yourself to their needs and work with them to met them. The problem is not the child and the parents sleep, the problem is society expecting little tiny brains with no emotional regulation skills to behave better than adults. And not supporting parents to support their children.
Honestly I’m so shocked by this advice you have sent out it makes me question your credentials for your previous newsletters.
Have you heard of attachment theory?
I’m a mother of two, my children’s sleep is polar opposite, much like their personalities and much like mine and my husbands.
With respect, I think you may be getting the pop psychology / social media term "attachment parenting" confused with a "secure attachment," the latter being something that's important to establish for a kid and that goes hand in hand with helping them learn to regulate and navigate their own emotions, sleep habits, social relationships, etc. Totally understandable! If you're interested in learning more, I'd check out the work of Dr. Jenna Elgin and Dr. Shanna Alvarez of Helping Families Thrive:
One thing your comment got me thinking about was that in many cultures across the globe, parents don't have the extra hands or the infinite leisure time for cosleeping--sleep training is hardly a concept invented by Americans, since it predates the existence of America.
In fact, it's a very modern idea that parents must stare longingly into their children's eyes every moment of every day and night, never allowing even a flicker of discomfort to cross their wee visages. 😄
One thing I really respect about this blog is that even though I don't always agree 100% with Dr. Nesi's conclusions or suggestions, she has shown that she's willing to present data and research findings in the clearest way possible. She's very careful not to overreach, and because of her unwillingness to oversimplify the information into fun but incorrect catchphrases, you have to be able to handle nuance and complexity to get something out of it. I think using critical thinking skills is a good tradeoff to avoid soaking myself in meaningless platitudes though!
This means that sometimes the data contradicts with assumptions I already held, and that can feel uncomfortable. But I read because I'm interested not just in hearing my biases confirmed but in learning something that'll help me parent. I'm hoping to find truth, as best as we're able to find it with the available research.
I recognize that I'm not always going to go by the script of the moment, and will find other hacks and methods that work for my family. But going by the data when possible and not only by *feelings* (I have empathy for this! It's always tempting) has worked well for me and my kids so far.
Anyway, it sounds like you've already found a method that works for you, and that's great! You must feel very confident about it, and I'm definitely not going to tell you to do something differently if that's working for your family. I think Dr. Nesi's offering this advice for all of us unwashed masses who still need some practical strategies, and we appreciate it. Cheers! ♥️
I'm not sure how you think Cherie has confused anything, attachment theory is the scientific basis for what you describe as a secure attachment. Not responding to your distressed child is exactly how you do not form or maintain a secure attachment.
The term "attachment parenting" is often conflated with "secure attachment," but those terms are not the same thing and it is indeed super common to be confused about that (understandably, in my opinion). I was taking the most charitable view possible for the opposing "side," and trying to engage in good faith.
As an aside, a lot of people say "Cry It Out" when they actually mean "Ferber Method" or "Leave and Check," which is relevant here. Becca does a great job of explaining it here, much more eloquently than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI4mGIOkin0
I used the "Leave and Check" method after my babies finished their newborn phase and were ready for sleep training. It was great for me: it helped *me* sleep and continue go to work every day and to pay my bills as a working mom, and have a full tank of patience and joy ready for them that frankly *wasn't* there if I wasn't sleeping.
To me, it's also important not only to love my kids well, but to prepare them for autonomy. I try to let them experience natural and logical pushback and consequences in life, as age appropriate, so that one day they'll be ready to face the big old world on their own. And one of the earliest steps is letting them learn to self-soothe as they gain the skill of falling asleep. I don't think that shielding them from all discomfort whatsoever in childhood and then expecting them to suddenly thrive and be resilient as an adult with zero practice makes any sense. As my kids are fond of laughingly quoting from The Princess Bride: "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something."
Different things work for different kids. If you've found what works well for you, that's awesome! I'm sure that if you say your kids are healthy and happy, they are, and I believe you at your word. But I gotta say, observing my sleep-trained kids just now cackling and cracking jokes while helping me make smoothies in the kitchen, the last thing I'm worried about is if they're not "securely attached" because I ruined them by helping them learn how to sleep.
I'd love to know what you thought about the resources I linked in my previous comment. If you want to continue discussing, maybe you can point me to a resource where doctors are discussing or summarizing research related to attachment parenting, and I'll take a look!
I'm from Brazil, and these theories are also scary for us, as we raise our kids with a lot of contact and attachment. If I leave a child in a room crying until they throw up, I’d get arrested here.
> Half of parents who responded to questionnaires in Canada and Australia and one-third of parents surveyed in Switzerland and Germany said they've tried it.
Sleep training isn't just some American thing. It's also in New Zealand with consultants like
I so appreciate seeing your comment. I'm in Australia and I agree the culture divide is significant but there's still plenty of sleep training advice getting around. I'm so disappointed to see this in a newsletter I have otherwise enjoyed.
I just had to laugh at the claim that taking a nap after the age of 5 means there is some sleep disorder. I guess those scientists never heard of the billions of people around the world -- pretty much everywhere except Protestant Work Ethic Europe and some of its colonies, I think -- who take afternoon naps. When I worked in Asia the entire office turned off the lights at lunch and people pulled out pillows to nap in conference rooms or under their desk.
I used to strip my son and me naked, get into a nice warm bathtub, play a little bit, quietly, cleanse ourselves, dress for bed and lie in bed with him on his belly on my chest and me lying on my back. I'd talk peacefully in the dark about how it was time to sleep. Usually worked but he was usually tired because I'd cheat by wearing him out when I got home from work. Worked for our daughter too. Wife would come in and move them to the crib. Around 2 am, baby cried, I went into the room, brought him/her to my wife, arranged the breast/mouth connection. My wife appreciated not having to wake up/get up. Sleep when the baby sleeps, screw the housework, just keep it sanitary. Hey Dad! Learn how to operate the dryer, washing machine, dishwasher and get some cooking skills. Naps should ideally end 4 to 6 hours before bedtime; whatever works. Lightning storms? Who wouldn't be afraid? Put them in bed with you for a bit, talk about what is/why is lightning/thunder. Whatever you do, give them all the truth they can handle. They're smarter than we think they are.
You think it's ok for a child aged 1-7 to be left to scream for 20+ minutes?? Extinction isn't even recommended as a first line method in modern dog training. Just because something "works" through operant conditioning doesn't mean you should recommend it.
Granny here, w/a younger brother who still (at 60 yr old) has sleep issues and w/2 grown kids who had issues when young. Also worked as a pediatric nurse practitioner for 20 yr and found that sleep problems were a huge part of parenting stress. So - 1) GREAT TIPS! Many, many youngsters will respond to extinction, and rewards for desired behaviors also help. If your child does NOT respond, and you've been able to be consistent in your approach to bedtime, please do talk to your child's medical provider. 2) Actual physical problems can certainly diminish the child's ability to initiate or maintain sleep. I recall one little girl who turned out to have a chronic ear infection w/o any other symptoms than her inability to maintain sleep. When she lay horizontally, the pressure in her middle ear changed and hurt, waking her up. 3) Children with autism often have trouble with sleeping, beginning very early in childhood. Therefore, if nothing has helped and your medical provider has ruled out physical problems, initiate the conversation with the provider. It really is true that the earlier a child gets diagnosed, the more they benefit from proper therapies. Your child is NOT avoiding sleep just to make your life difficult!
I am shocked by this newsletter. I mean I live in New Zealand so culturally are worlds apart from America. For a psychologist to be suggesting leaving a child alone in a room to cry to themselves until they realise no one is coming to support them is frankly dangerous. I really thought the point of having a child was to attune yourself to their needs and work with them to met them. The problem is not the child and the parents sleep, the problem is society expecting little tiny brains with no emotional regulation skills to behave better than adults. And not supporting parents to support their children.
Honestly I’m so shocked by this advice you have sent out it makes me question your credentials for your previous newsletters.
Have you heard of attachment theory?
I’m a mother of two, my children’s sleep is polar opposite, much like their personalities and much like mine and my husbands.
America is wild.
With respect, I think you may be getting the pop psychology / social media term "attachment parenting" confused with a "secure attachment," the latter being something that's important to establish for a kid and that goes hand in hand with helping them learn to regulate and navigate their own emotions, sleep habits, social relationships, etc. Totally understandable! If you're interested in learning more, I'd check out the work of Dr. Jenna Elgin and Dr. Shanna Alvarez of Helping Families Thrive:
https://helpingfamiliesthrive.com/evidence-based-positive-parenting/
https://littlezsleep.com/blog/what-are-some-examples-of-co-regulation/
https://youtu.be/pVvbZHiPceI?si=xWWGS3hKr2wr0IhO
One thing your comment got me thinking about was that in many cultures across the globe, parents don't have the extra hands or the infinite leisure time for cosleeping--sleep training is hardly a concept invented by Americans, since it predates the existence of America.
In fact, it's a very modern idea that parents must stare longingly into their children's eyes every moment of every day and night, never allowing even a flicker of discomfort to cross their wee visages. 😄
One thing I really respect about this blog is that even though I don't always agree 100% with Dr. Nesi's conclusions or suggestions, she has shown that she's willing to present data and research findings in the clearest way possible. She's very careful not to overreach, and because of her unwillingness to oversimplify the information into fun but incorrect catchphrases, you have to be able to handle nuance and complexity to get something out of it. I think using critical thinking skills is a good tradeoff to avoid soaking myself in meaningless platitudes though!
This means that sometimes the data contradicts with assumptions I already held, and that can feel uncomfortable. But I read because I'm interested not just in hearing my biases confirmed but in learning something that'll help me parent. I'm hoping to find truth, as best as we're able to find it with the available research.
I recognize that I'm not always going to go by the script of the moment, and will find other hacks and methods that work for my family. But going by the data when possible and not only by *feelings* (I have empathy for this! It's always tempting) has worked well for me and my kids so far.
Anyway, it sounds like you've already found a method that works for you, and that's great! You must feel very confident about it, and I'm definitely not going to tell you to do something differently if that's working for your family. I think Dr. Nesi's offering this advice for all of us unwashed masses who still need some practical strategies, and we appreciate it. Cheers! ♥️
I'm not sure how you think Cherie has confused anything, attachment theory is the scientific basis for what you describe as a secure attachment. Not responding to your distressed child is exactly how you do not form or maintain a secure attachment.
The term "attachment parenting" is often conflated with "secure attachment," but those terms are not the same thing and it is indeed super common to be confused about that (understandably, in my opinion). I was taking the most charitable view possible for the opposing "side," and trying to engage in good faith.
As an aside, a lot of people say "Cry It Out" when they actually mean "Ferber Method" or "Leave and Check," which is relevant here. Becca does a great job of explaining it here, much more eloquently than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI4mGIOkin0
I used the "Leave and Check" method after my babies finished their newborn phase and were ready for sleep training. It was great for me: it helped *me* sleep and continue go to work every day and to pay my bills as a working mom, and have a full tank of patience and joy ready for them that frankly *wasn't* there if I wasn't sleeping.
To me, it's also important not only to love my kids well, but to prepare them for autonomy. I try to let them experience natural and logical pushback and consequences in life, as age appropriate, so that one day they'll be ready to face the big old world on their own. And one of the earliest steps is letting them learn to self-soothe as they gain the skill of falling asleep. I don't think that shielding them from all discomfort whatsoever in childhood and then expecting them to suddenly thrive and be resilient as an adult with zero practice makes any sense. As my kids are fond of laughingly quoting from The Princess Bride: "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something."
Different things work for different kids. If you've found what works well for you, that's awesome! I'm sure that if you say your kids are healthy and happy, they are, and I believe you at your word. But I gotta say, observing my sleep-trained kids just now cackling and cracking jokes while helping me make smoothies in the kitchen, the last thing I'm worried about is if they're not "securely attached" because I ruined them by helping them learn how to sleep.
I'd love to know what you thought about the resources I linked in my previous comment. If you want to continue discussing, maybe you can point me to a resource where doctors are discussing or summarizing research related to attachment parenting, and I'll take a look!
I'm from Brazil, and these theories are also scary for us, as we raise our kids with a lot of contact and attachment. If I leave a child in a room crying until they throw up, I’d get arrested here.
> Half of parents who responded to questionnaires in Canada and Australia and one-third of parents surveyed in Switzerland and Germany said they've tried it.
Sleep training isn't just some American thing. It's also in New Zealand with consultants like
https://www.nzsleepsolutions.co.nz/
I so appreciate seeing your comment. I'm in Australia and I agree the culture divide is significant but there's still plenty of sleep training advice getting around. I'm so disappointed to see this in a newsletter I have otherwise enjoyed.
I just had to laugh at the claim that taking a nap after the age of 5 means there is some sleep disorder. I guess those scientists never heard of the billions of people around the world -- pretty much everywhere except Protestant Work Ethic Europe and some of its colonies, I think -- who take afternoon naps. When I worked in Asia the entire office turned off the lights at lunch and people pulled out pillows to nap in conference rooms or under their desk.
I used to strip my son and me naked, get into a nice warm bathtub, play a little bit, quietly, cleanse ourselves, dress for bed and lie in bed with him on his belly on my chest and me lying on my back. I'd talk peacefully in the dark about how it was time to sleep. Usually worked but he was usually tired because I'd cheat by wearing him out when I got home from work. Worked for our daughter too. Wife would come in and move them to the crib. Around 2 am, baby cried, I went into the room, brought him/her to my wife, arranged the breast/mouth connection. My wife appreciated not having to wake up/get up. Sleep when the baby sleeps, screw the housework, just keep it sanitary. Hey Dad! Learn how to operate the dryer, washing machine, dishwasher and get some cooking skills. Naps should ideally end 4 to 6 hours before bedtime; whatever works. Lightning storms? Who wouldn't be afraid? Put them in bed with you for a bit, talk about what is/why is lightning/thunder. Whatever you do, give them all the truth they can handle. They're smarter than we think they are.
I am so so happy to read this!!! I bet you have a beautiful family, your children must feel so safe to know you are always there for them
You think it's ok for a child aged 1-7 to be left to scream for 20+ minutes?? Extinction isn't even recommended as a first line method in modern dog training. Just because something "works" through operant conditioning doesn't mean you should recommend it.
Granny here, w/a younger brother who still (at 60 yr old) has sleep issues and w/2 grown kids who had issues when young. Also worked as a pediatric nurse practitioner for 20 yr and found that sleep problems were a huge part of parenting stress. So - 1) GREAT TIPS! Many, many youngsters will respond to extinction, and rewards for desired behaviors also help. If your child does NOT respond, and you've been able to be consistent in your approach to bedtime, please do talk to your child's medical provider. 2) Actual physical problems can certainly diminish the child's ability to initiate or maintain sleep. I recall one little girl who turned out to have a chronic ear infection w/o any other symptoms than her inability to maintain sleep. When she lay horizontally, the pressure in her middle ear changed and hurt, waking her up. 3) Children with autism often have trouble with sleeping, beginning very early in childhood. Therefore, if nothing has helped and your medical provider has ruled out physical problems, initiate the conversation with the provider. It really is true that the earlier a child gets diagnosed, the more they benefit from proper therapies. Your child is NOT avoiding sleep just to make your life difficult!